24 Comments »

1. Mary:
   February 16th, 2006 @ 10:58 pm

   I’m sorry. Isn’t it true that we are always searching for the approval of our mothers? I remember this as I’m parenting my two kids. The role of mother is ALL powerful.

   I almost spit out my hot cocoa when I read this: “…how “God blessed my sister” by providing her with a free fridge through her husband’s construction job.” Ha!

2. Lynn:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 5:51 am

   As far back as age 13, I informed my mother I had no interest or belief in her Catholic faith. She called me lazy for not wanting to go to church. She thought it a teenager thing and I would come to my senses. She said if I had such a distaste for Catholicism that there were many other (organized) religions out there. She just wanted me to have something in my life.

   Our decision not to baptize our daughter was originally met with resistance, but over the past 5 years, it has been accepted or at least not mentioned. Having a child gave me the need and courage to no longer care that I was different from my family. I could not fill my child’s head with the guilt and fallacies of religion.

   Finding your blog last month and attending my first Humanist meeting in January gave me a sense of belonging and being understood. After being the black sheep in my family for 20 years, I finally had found like-minded people.

   I decided to share this with my mother because I honestly believed she just wanted me to have something in my life. I know she worries about my daughter growing up without religion.

   After disclosing my activities, she said nothing. I reminded her of her earlier statement. She said she was just going to think about it for awhile. Three weeks later, I guess she is still thinking. She has not brought it up again. I guess her something had to be Christian-based.

   While my achievements are not comparable to yours, I still felt disappointed at her lack of interest in my 20 year search being fulfilled. I am sure your mother – like mine – feels when you turned from your church it was her failure as a mother. Mothers are notorious for blaming themselves for the “failures” of their children.

   I try to put myself in my mother’s place and how I would feel if my daughter someday joined the Catholic faith. I would feel I had failed her. And it would be really hard to be happy for her.

3. Shelly:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 10:08 am

   Good for you for telling your mom directly. We were outed as atheists to my husbands parents by another family member trying to get their pound of flesh from me because of a different matter. They were more upset over how we hid our atheism for so many years. They uninvited us to Christmas that year. When I pointed out that we’ve been atheists the whole time we had been participating in the family Christmases, she scornfully said that we must have been laughing at them behind their backs. I never understood how keeping in the closet could be a form of lying to our parents and that I essentially broke a bond of trust. But it’s so hard to have the courage to come out to begin with.

   Now that they’ve known for almost 4 years (I’ve been married for 15 years), things have settled down and we’re getting along very well, again.

   Bravo!

4. Ron:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 12:22 pm

   “You can’t make yourself unhappy enough to make someone else happy.”

5. fran:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 12:41 pm

   Sometimes , mostly out of habit, worshiping pretend gods and spirits and ghosts position us . Faith and hope are two terms that are used to stifle the interest of the believer’s quest for understanding, knowledge and most of all truth. The godly illusions of the coveted afterlife won’t let them venture beyond the parameters set forth by the preacher-priestlies . In reality Hatred and fear are the guiding lights of the religious order. This keeps your kin folk and mine in line. The philosophy dares them to proceed beyond the illusions that have been built on lie after lie after lie. They have been compounded and substituted for reality.They will waste their only time around and sell out to hocus pocus . They are followers , and it’s sad

6. Sarah:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 1:58 pm

   Hey there, I totally understand what you’re going through. I’m not a mom but I’m an agnostic who grew up in a conservative Christian family; I was a Christian up until about a year and a half ago. It was very difficult for me to admit to myself that what I’d been taught for so long was a lie, but I had to do it. And I had to tell my mom a few months ago when she asked me point blank, “what do you believe?” This happened during an argument about abortion, so you can imagine how unpleasant the discussion was. I told her I no longer consider myself a Christian and don’t believe in god anymore. I was very insulted when she insinuated that I must be mad at god for something. She really didn’t want to believe that I didn’t believe in god at all. I think she believes I’m trying to rebel or be different or something, even though I’m a 23 year old adult. She asked where I get my morals from if not god and insists that I’m going through a phase and will eventually return to Jesus. In a way I understand where she’s coming from because, unfortunately, I used to think the same way, but it’s awful when your own parent won’t accept you or your beliefs (or lack thereof).
   At Christmastime she and my father gave readings at church and, to be supportive, I offered to go with them. My mom flew off the handle and started accusing me of being selfish for not being a Christian and mocked my lack of belief, asking, “What are you going to celebrate this year? Festivus? Is Christmas all about getting presents to you?” I felt like a child, being berated like that. It’s kind of hard to defend yourself when your mother just insults you… and on a holiday! So that’s where things stand right now. She sincerely believes I will end up in hell; it’s sad. Hopefully we can both develop more understanding relationships with our mothers, but for now just know you’re not alone.

7. Tanya:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 2:35 pm

   Hey! As a fellow Arizonan and Humanist mom I can share your pain. My family too do NOT react with anything approximating enthusiasm when I tell them aboutmy life. In some ways it is terribly difficult because my two sons (ages 4 and 5) have autism and I could use my mother’s support more. But, it is what it is.

   It does get easier and easier. I left my religion (Jehovah’s Witnesses) at the age of 27 and after 5 years it became really easy to not even think about. It has been nearly 8 years now and I’m really happy and open with who I am. As time goes by I need my mother, my old friends and my family’s approval less and less.

   I also see how happy my kids are and that helps too.
   Tanya

8. petunia mcgillicuddy:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 3:31 pm

   hi noell! you write with such charm and humor!! CONGRATULATIONS! congratulations on facing some frightening dilemmas and truths and coming out more courageous and cheerful! congratulations for having the reserve and self-confidence to be honest with your mother! and then the light-heartedness to share the outcome with us in a wise and heartfelt manner!

9. Laura:
   February 17th, 2006 @ 3:40 pm

   I’m so sorry your mom couldn’t be happy for you. Unfortuately this response seems to be the norm. Makes me even more nervous about coming out to my parents. I know they will freak.
   Sometimes I wonder why we care so much about how they approve/disapprove of us as children. It seems to be so hard for them to think of us as adults who can make decsions for ourselves, especially when its about beliefs (or lack thereof)that run contrary to theirs.
   My dad’s favorite line as I was growing up was “You think you know more than me?”
   When will I ever ‘know’ more than my dad then?
   Do we just accept that our parents will never approve or be happy for us? And why is it so easy for our siblings to accept us?

10. Noell:
    February 17th, 2006 @ 3:54 pm

    Laura: It’s Natural Selection, my dear. Nature designed parents to protect their off-spring with their lives. It is true that often, they DO know better than us. Nature made us so danged emotionally strapped to a desire to please them (I like that word, “danged”) in order to most often protect us. When the parents are wrong, as many of us are feeling right now, it requires extra courage to defy them. It’s like the baby chick who needs to crack out of its own shell.

    It’s so difficult, though. I actually had the following thoughts: If I was happy before leaving the church, would the sum-total of happiness between myself and my family be greater had I not had my paradigm shift?

    After a long time examining the question, I realized I am much happier now. My relationship with my husband is so much better because we are able to talk about things we weren’t able to discuss before. Our time is freed up to do the most important and fulfilling things we didn’t have time to do before. All in all, our life has improved in every way.

    It’s like Ron said . . . just look up at his comment. I don’t want to requote. I’ve GOT to get off my computer today!

11. Hifi:
    February 17th, 2006 @ 3:58 pm

    My Mormon father broadcasts email delineating his pleasure at baptism, callings and mission, with no interest at all in the accomplishments of his other children and grandchildren.

    For the religious there is no progress outside of traditional rites of passage. But if we hope for a better future and life for our children in this world, we will cherish the notion that we have built upon and exceeded our parents’ worldview, progressing beyond them to more knowledge, more awareness, more truth than they ever had the opportunity to attain. Myself, I absolutely expect that my children will exceed me – in nearly every way – before they reach adulthood, or I have failed them.

12. Cassandra:
    February 17th, 2006 @ 6:07 pm

    Congratulations on having the courage to tell you mom some news that is so important to you!! And congrats on the HNN column. That’s excellent!!

13. Katy:
    February 17th, 2006 @ 7:08 pm

    Found your blog recently through mommybloggers.com and am enjoying it thus far. I was raised as “culturally christian” and my husband’s father is a UCC (liberal protestant) minister. Neither of our families were particularly happy when we joined the Unitarian Universalist Society, and my born-again sister still doesn’t seem to get it that we do not consider ourselves to be christians. It is always a challenge for us, in our very Catholic city, to have to explain who we are and what we believe. But it feels good to do what is right for us and our children.

14. fran:
    February 18th, 2006 @ 6:44 am

    Hi-Fi , I just wanted to point out that I think that yours is the most rational explanation. For folks having trouble with explaining why they chose secular humanism you should take some of the free courses offered by the institute for humanist studies . There is some good reading there and clarification issues are dealt with. I found a lot of books on Amazon related to Darwinism and psychobiology and the brain etc. Even stuff for kids that allow them to freely discover a world without hocus pocus and superstition.Thanx again Hi Fi , your thinking is fluid and straightforward

15. awzy:
    February 18th, 2006 @ 12:59 pm

    You are doing a wonderful job for the devil. Now stop being so self-absorbed and stop patting yourself on the back. Poor you , mommy won’t tell me I’m good. Do you think God is happy with your attitude.

16. Ed Darrell:
    February 18th, 2006 @ 1:55 pm

    Oh, dear! What a cauldron there that I had not really appreciated!

    I think it’s easier if there is great education and broad background in the family. My mother’s family was sorta Mormon, but my maternal grandmother was Presbyterian (due to a dispute her father had with the bishop in Provo — over polygamy? Differing stories . . .). My father claimed to be Baptist, but his family was 7th-Day Adventist, and his brother-in-law was a high muck-a-muck in their publishing organizating — one cousin was a key administrator at Loma Linda University. My siblings were raised Mormon, but I left before baptism when some woman complained about my fascination with dinosaurs, which she termed “fictional” creatures (it was 15 years before I learned that Mormon doctrine does not support creationism). One of my brothers married Catholic; another attends a non-denominational church occasionally; my sister is . . . well we don’t know what to call it, but there’s a lot of zen-inspired stuff in it.

    Remember, Noell, to remind your mother of the 13th Article of Faith — “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.” Your children’s, your mother’s grandchildren’s, lives will often fit that description. And remember the first part, too: “We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul–We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things.” That’s not a bad description of humanism, if you ask me.

    And if you check the actual definitions offered by most dictionaries, you’ll see that “humanist” means someone concerned with the welfare of humans. Such a description would certainly encompass Jesus as described by the gospels.

    People should not build walls where there is no need for them, nor close doors that are better left opened.

    With bad luck, life is short — too short to cut off friends and family due to disagreements about religion. With a little good luck, life is long — long enough that we may come to understand our families, and long enough that we might change our minds; too long to cut off famiily and maintain a grudge. If we are human — humanist or not — we need others, and we should not do ourselves the damage that is required to keep a dudgeon going out about beliefs of others in the family.

    I once read a story about a Quaker who, in the course of daily dealings with rude newspaper sellers, store clerks and waiters, maintained his composure and manners. He explained that his wish to bring peace to others did not allow him to let others determine his own behavior.

    If our parents close doors, sometimes we must open them up again.

17. Greg Foster:
    February 18th, 2006 @ 3:48 pm

    I’ve had a few thoughts on the challenge you’ve taken on and rather than post them here, I would invite you to my rather primitive blog at http://spaces.msn.com/mistygate/

18. A China Teapot:
    February 19th, 2006 @ 5:45 am

    Perhaps the problem is one of social shame rather than religion. Religion is something that many people just go along with but don’t believe at all. Religion provides a solid social structure which is difficult to resist.

    Your mother may have doubts about her faith too. Your “coming out” as a non-believer may make it more difficult to hide her doubts, which could be difficult if they surfaced.

    As a young child I was brought up agnostic, but used to see my paternal grandmother walking to church. Several years later she moved to a rural area where it was a long drive to the nearest church. At that point she and my grandfather questioned why they went to church, and discovered they didn’t believe. She was a happy “darwinist” for the rest of her life, but never lost her fascination with churches as buildings and, having moved house again, for many years was an openly atheist guide at the local church.

19. Sadie:
    February 20th, 2006 @ 6:58 am

    I hate that my parents are sad that I am agnostic. I feel the hurt and sadness in their eyes everytime I see them. What am I supposed to do? This is what I want. This makes me happy. Shouldn’t they be happy that I am happy? I don’t think they are able to. But as Tom Cruise said in a simply fabulous movie, Magnolia, “I will not apologize for who I am. I will not apologize for what I want. I will not apologize for what I need.”
    Thanks Noell

20. Allison:
    February 20th, 2006 @ 11:07 am

    Just a thought, not necessarily in defense of those religious moms, but perhaps in explanation of them.

    While there are many who follow religion out of habit or social pressure or whatever, there are those who truly do believe. My mother is one of them. And for mothers like her, the news that one’s child is an agnostic or atheist or anything other than the creed in which the child was raised is a failure of eternal proportions. Those mothers truly and sincerely with all their hearts believe that that child will suffer eternal torment in hell. Think of the love you have for your child, and now think how you would feel about them suffering. We may think the mothers’ beliefs are silly, but that doesn’t make their pain any less real to them.

    So, to give those moms the benefit of the doubt, for a moment understand that their disappointment and disapproval may be grounded in their deep and unspeakable love for you.

    Where you go from there, I can’t guess. After all, I still haven’t dared have that conversation thoroughly with myself, let alone my mom…

21. fran:
    February 20th, 2006 @ 1:55 pm

    From the other end of the spectrum I think we need to discuss realism here . I’m most likely old enough to be a parent to all of you . I was raised in a catholic home . Graduated from a catholic high school and on my fathers side of the family I attended many a Southern Baptist function that catered to whites only. Black folks were allowed to visit and sit on the back row , but only once a year or so . I never really fit in accept for the picnics ( softball etc. ) Anyway , I think you get the idea……..The whole process always seemed so spooky to me . With all of the spirits , the wine and the God thing just not making sense .In the end It all seened to come down to christian hate mongering ,demogoguery and division on behalf of an imaginary being that no one has neither seen nor is likely to see. Muslims hold the same type of belief system along with Jews and others. They all feed off of complex illusions that have strong foundations and they rely on the iliteracy of their following. Most of the intelligent ones fall into leadership roles and welcome an easy way to support their families . They claim they are unified but really, how many variations of worshipers and how many different denominations are there and still no sign of their made up GOD . It’s sad that so many would fall for the magic, but so many are weak.

22. Tom:
    February 22nd, 2006 @ 9:35 pm

    Thanks for the post. I too am a post-mormon (not an anti-mormon), and have struggled with my familial relationships. I continue my studies at an ivy league graduate school and am very happy with my life, yet I get the feeling that my family members and friends are completely expecting me to fall into the deep end at any moment.

23. George A.:
    August 10th, 2006 @ 10:22 am

    As a former(recovering)catholic and a firm agnostic, I enjoy your site very much.It’s interesting to read what other freethinkers/humanists have experienced and are currently going through. The discussions here, without a doubt, help many people with their struggle to shed their superstitions and cope with family pressures. My own experience is quite boring, it’s hardly worth telling,so here it goes. When I was about 10yrs. old and going to sunday school, I remember thinking to myself, “Do these people really think this is true,how could this have really happened?” So,I continued to go to church because that was how I was raised. My wife was raised southern baptist then converted to catholicism for marriage. Her parents are very devout but took it okay. We had 2 children. Then about 4yrs. ago I decided I couldn’t pretend anymore. I told my wife what I thought. I told her that I didn’t believe in any religion and that looking around the world at events driven by religious hatred just reinforced what I thought. She didn’t take it well at first,but came around wonderfully since. We joke around about it now. She understands my view of things and has actually adopted quite a bit of it for herself. She likes the Universal/Unitarian philosophy. As for her parents they just assume it is business as usual and she wants to keep it that way for the present. As for my family, (here’s the kicker) my parents and sisters say that they have been closet agnostics for a long, long time. My parents actually told me they were sorry for putting us through the catholic wringer. One of those misguided attempts to do whats right for the kids. Turns out the blacksheep of the family is actually my born-again brother. Who’d a thought it?

24. Shannon:
    August 29th, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

    To: Tanya
    I hope you read this! I used to be Jehovah’s Witness too. I read your comment and got a little bit happy to hear from someone else who was a J.W. and left religion. I haven’t gone to a meeting in a year now, and I’m constantly trying to avoid my old J.W. friends, because I don’t know how to explain to anyone that I am agnostic now, and I just don’t believe in religion anymore. I don’t have any other friends though, because when you’re J.W. they isolate you in a way from everyone else who isn’t a J.W. I am a single mom, and I don’t know where to meet others who experience what I’m going through. How do you find other people like us? I wish I could talk to Ex-J.W.’s turned agnostic! I’m so stressed out about it! I hope you read this and comment back.

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