Testimony From God or Misguided Convictions?
Let me tell you about Lester Maddox, whose obituary I found in the New York Times. Then I have a question to ask.
Maddox had strong convictions about what he referred to as states’ right:
These included the view that blacks were intellectually inferior to whites, that integration was a Communist plot, that segregation was somewhere justified in scripture and that a federal mandate to integrate schools was “ungodly, un-Christian and un-American.”
His opinions were no less fixed on other issues. He was opposed to drinking, smoking, liberal clergymen, atheism, socialism, the press, civil rights workers, “do-gooder foundations” and the wearing of miniskirts in the state Capitol. He advocated short haircuts for men, the Baptist Church (at least, its more conservative members), the Georgia Chamber of Commerce and the singing of “God Bless America,” a tune for which apparently he had an insatiable appetite. He liked it so much that at one public event, he ordered that it be sung no fewer than three times, and people in the crowd could see tears in his eyes.
If you believe in God, and in our ability to feel of his spirit, would you think a man with the above opinions capable of feeling it? Of being inspired by it?
Considering how he probably interpreted the song, “God Bless America,” would you expect God to infuse Maddox with his spirit at the level of moving him to tears?
In 1966, Georgia elected Lester Maddox as state governor. The Times article explained, “Mr. Maddox, who had never before held elected office, explained that God had been his campaign manager.”
If you believe in God and his inspiration, do you imagine God would inspire and bring to office a man like Maddox?
From the same article: “Mr. Maddox explained his segregationist views to The New York Times in November that year, saying his position stemmed from “a love for my people, because I believe it to be Christian and . . . American.”
How do you explain his definition of love? Of being Christian and American? I am sure every one of us here (and most Americans, for that matter) despises Maddox’s beliefs. But Maddox truly believed them. Maddox had convictions. And he thought the strength of those convictions meant they were godly.
I remember the semester I went back to school, just a week after returning home from my Mormon mission. I was at the top of my spiritual game. I decided to do a cultural history research paper on the Quran. If you are not familiar with Mormon missionaries, you need to realize that having immersed ourselves in religion, religion, religion for such a long period of time, our way of thinking when we get back is . . . let me just say it is skewed.
Somehow my cultural history paper turned into an attack against a point of religious doctrine in the Quran. In my reading of the book, I got “inspired” about a flaw I saw in the doctrine. This inspiritation, which I felt as a fervent message from the mind of God, himself, practically pushed the keys on the keyboard as I wrote a paper I was sure would transform the perspective of my professor. Never noticing that my “inspired paper” had gotten completely off-subject, I turned it in.
It wasn’t until I got the paper back with a big “C” at the top, after I’d had distance from the religious fervor of the writing moment, that I began to question my experience. Did God actually direct me to write a misguided paper on a subject different from the assignment? As time went on, I began to sense that my paper was a product of my own religious arrogance.
So my final question, as you consider Lester Murddox and the passions he was sure came from God:
How do you know that your inspiration from God,or your beliefs from God, aren’t just the power of the human mind to have enormous, emotion-driven convictions?
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April 7th, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
Passion comes with conviction. It is a gut level emotion controlled by your innermost fears and the anger that arouses them . Let me give you an example . When the ten commandments placement was challenged in Georgia the emotion laden nay sayers failed to recognize the reasons why we can’t just allow all religions access to the governments courthouse . If we did it would be chaotic and instead of conducting government business we would be feuding because we were displaced and now occupy a small corner of the building whereas the mormons and jews have come to occupy the prime space we once held.(think iraq) People who lack education and wisdom fail to see the forest for the trees. Christians have become brainwashed to the point where their lives rely on supernatural contact so they rely on gods and ghosts for input. Gods that tell them that if the commandments are removed they will become totally immoral and their world will inevitably fall apart . Psychologically they sometimes reach the level of psychosis because they feel like they are losing total control of the situation. Then the voices return
Some are able to separate the ghosts from reality others aren’t . That can be scary!!
April 7th, 2006 @ 6:56 pm
I don’t believe in a supernatural now so it’s difficult to answer that question but if I did believe I would still come to the conclusion that that supernatural could care less if some dude is allowed to eat chicken at someone’s restaurant or not. People get too uptight when they feel like they’re losing power or control.
April 7th, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
There are several questions here but I will address the first two that begin with something close to, “If you believe in God, then …†The very last question does not have that clause but it is certainly implied so I will respond as though it was intended.
On the surface, it appears that you are directing these questions to some generic believer and thus challenging their belief. What I am hoping you are NOT doing is second guessing your own decision to take an agnostic position. It would be like saying, “I want to believe in God but if I did, how would I justify these seemingly bizarre situations?†To me, the response is simple because I am not a believer and thus wouldn’t even try to justify a God setting up such situations. To a believer, “Hey, you are own your own.†To an agnostic, the situation is quite different. These situations become more data points to consider when trying rationalizing a personal philosophy. At some point in time, push comes to shove and decisions must be made on the “preponderance of evidence†and lived with because very often more than one person is involved and relationships are on going.
April 7th, 2006 @ 8:24 pm
Hey, Gregg100. To answer your question, no I am NOT second-guessing my own beliefs (or lack thereof).
I was such a “spiritual” person back in the day, and felt inspired about all kinds of things on a day to day basis. Looking back, I realize that the ideas I thought were inspired were actually just my own ideas accompanied with great feeling. At some point in my life I recongized that my ideas changed over and over and over again throughout the years. And yet somehow I thought they were all inspired. How could God have inspired all of the different ideas that changed and conflicted with each other over time?
A changing god might do that. But not the unchanging Christian god.
Anyway, I wanted to ask these questions of believers, but I am also hesitant to do it, because it is not my personal mission to convince others their religions are wrong. Maybe it is that ambiguity within myself that led you to question my intent.
April 7th, 2006 @ 9:24 pm
Hey,
How often do we hear people proclaiming that “god” gave them the strength or wisdom or whatever that enabled them to get through some ordeal or test? How often do we hear people say of the dead “He/She is in a better place, now?” Believers are so brainwashed that they can’t imagine that they alone brought forth the effort to pull the person from the burning auto, or whatever. Nor can they imagine that when someone is dead, they’re dead. I always think it’s presumptuous of anyone to proclaim that someone who has passed “is in a better place” assuming that the “better place” is heaven. Never mind that it’s just wrong.
While death is inevitable for us all, nevertheless, the void, the nothingness that awaits is not particularly inviting. But if a believer assumes that they or anyone else is now or destined to be in heaven, isn’t that hubris?
I know, the above is a little off the subject, but I tend to wander at times. But it is all of a piece, isn’t it? Lester Maddox was a crafty politician, but a monstrously stupid man. His assumptions should have garnered him a special place in the sulfurous nether world, don’t you think?
TLS
April 8th, 2006 @ 4:49 pm
“FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU KNOW AIN’T SO.” MARK TWAIN …………… I LOVE THAT GUY.
April 8th, 2006 @ 9:47 pm
Noell, another eloquent essay.
I wonder the same thing, and actually, often without the God part. The example that springs to mind is the “Grizzly Man” guy. He so thought he was on the right path.
How do we ever know if we are deluding ourselves?
April 10th, 2006 @ 9:43 pm
I think it would be a mistake to paint all believers with one brush. Christians, for example, are far from monolithic. There are those — admittedly not many — who take the doubt implied in their faith seriously. For these few, I think their answer would be that their passion doesn’t govern their reason.
A theologian like Dominic Crossan can both be a passionate Christian and reject the idea of Jesus actually rising from the dead. Thomas Merton found joy and truth in Buddhism. Paul Tillich created a theology based in part on existentialism. Not to mention Joseph Campbell, who found his god in every spiritual religion.
If your question is for all believers, then I think there are those who have a more sophisticated approach that allows for conviction without delusion and emotion without hysteria.
If your question if for those believers whose conviction is based on their egos, then you’ll never get a reasonable response. They are what I like to refer to as idolatrous. They’ve turned their beliefs — their images of god and the truth — into a god. They can’t answer your question because they could never get their heads around it.
There’s all sorts of levels of belief. You’ll never be able to get one answer.
P.S. If you ever do question your agnosticism, I would say that would be a very agnostic thing to do.
April 11th, 2006 @ 12:38 am
Was inspiration from God part of your religious training?
Is it different for Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Scientologists, etc.? Did they teach you that God
would literally take over your body and type your cultural
history paper on the Quran? For Maddox, maybe he felt that god literally put the words in his mouth, that integration is “ungodly, un-Christian, and un-American.”
Or do they teach that it is more abstract, that inspiration is some sort of warm feeling? Or do they not explicitly say and simply leave it up to each individual to make it up for themselves?
April 11th, 2006 @ 6:10 am
I’ve said it a thousand times . Without your creation there could be no god . God is your assembly, your concept . The god that works for you doesn’t work for anyone else . He must be in line with the way “you ” think of any personal idealogy. So you see , to pretend he’s anything else is simply bogus for it all starts with you. AMEN
April 11th, 2006 @ 12:05 pm
Dudley–Inspiration from God is a central point in Mormonism partly because they base conversion on a person’s ability to get a spiritual answer from God about a question. They believe that a person can know for themself that the Mormon Church is God’s true church because they get their confirmation straight from God. Therefore, it doesn’t matter what anyone every says to convince you otherwise. God told you it was true.
BUT, they DO NOT believe God would take over your body to type a paper or do anything. I meant to communicate that I felt God was feeding me the ideas and many of the words.
Mormons believe inspiration comes from God in a number of ways from warm feelings to more intense “burning sensations in the bossom” (don’t take that too literally) to ideas and even entire sentences placed in your mind. Mormons also believe God can speak to you with a voice you actually hear and show you visions, but these instances are more rare.
The Church teaches that baptized members can receive these types of spiritual promptings on a regular, daily basis, and are encouraged to seek this level of spirituality for daily guidance pertaining to all matters in your life.
April 11th, 2006 @ 12:22 pm
Angry Agnostic–Very interesting post. I enjoyed it.
By asking my questions, I was not generalizing all believers into any category. I was making the point that people have all kinds of different ideas and because feelings of conviction often accompany them, many of us assume it means they are also God’s ideas.
It is a part of human nature to feel some sort of rush when they have an epiphany of some sort. It doesn’t mean the epiphany is true. It just means the idea resonated with you for various reasons.
The strength of a person’s feelings regarding a certain belief does not have any correlation to the accuracy of that belief. As Lindy pointed out, even non-believers make this error. I think it can be more distorting for a religious believer, though, because they often think those ideas are actually from God.
But as you used the words “delusion” and “hysteria.” I am not only referring to those instances. I am also talking about those quiet moments when you feel at peace about something. I love feeling that way. Having those experiences is an important part of our spirituality. We just shouldn’t take it to mean that the idea is factual.
In case you are still wondering if I see all religous people as being the same, I do not. In fact, unlike some of my readers and many fellow atheist bloggers, I have no desire to rid the world of its religions. I think we would live in a better place if most religious people were more moderate in their beliefs.
BTW, why the name, “Angry Agnostic?”
Also, looking at your email address, you share a name with someone I once knew from the midwest. That wouldn’t be you, would it?
April 11th, 2006 @ 1:31 pm
I would never ever try to rid the world of religion . Talk about chaos!!! To many neurotics find it necessary to cope and wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if it weren’t for the fairy tale visions they get from religion . I blogged on the ebay athiest sight once and came away feeling really bad . As you know I’m outspoken and I started off on my usual tantrum about religion being a fairy tale and god being made up to suit the suitor etc. and this women responded ( intentionally I’m sure.. ) Sir , I don’t know you but I just have one question for you . If I followed your advice and abandoned my belief in god. What would I do with myself . Where would I go. My friends are all there. I would have no one . Well needless to say boy did I feel bad, realistically however, I think that was the intent of this women. She wanted me to feel bad. There was no way in the world she would have even considered abandoning life long friendships because I asked her too. She compuncted me using methods that are practiced every day by christians and their counterparts. It’s all part of the process . They Glow(grow) you a god . Make you feel bad and offer you salvation for being bad. They want you to feel a need to be forgiven.
April 11th, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
Again it all falls back to the fact they create the god that inspires them . They are the masters of their own creations. That is why there are so many sects and interpretations of the same god. Supernatural hocus pocus , spirits and ghosts designed to please
April 11th, 2006 @ 3:30 pm
Fran, I know what you mean. My own dad has Parkinson’s Disease. They have had to revamp some major life plans knowing that he won’t be around as long as they thought. As much as I wish she wouldn’t be so hurt about my own loss of religion, and the way to do that would be for her to decrease her own level of belief, more than anything she needs her beliefs right now.
To your other comment: even within the same sect you see different ideas of God. I remember being surprised when my Mormon girlfriend told me she was tempted to join Born Again Christianity because she saw the Mormon version of God as being so angry. She pointed out scriptures in the Book of Mormon that said God hated a certain group of people. Personally, I had always figured it meant something different than what it said. Because my own version of God, which had changed over the years, had become more Born-Again-ish.
April 11th, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
I did live in various midwestern states for many years, but I don’t think we know each other. I’ve discovered over the years that I have a rather common name.
As for the pseudonym, that was a product of the 2004 election. Feeling bitter and powerless over the media portrayal of non-Christians (you know, godless and valueless), I started a blog under Angry Agnostic. I thought it was a little funny (I mean really, can an agnostic really be angry?) and somewhat reflected how I was feeling. The truth is, I got over it in about two months, but I had been posting on so many sites under that name, I figured I’d keep it. Besides, I like the slightly off-kilter alliteration.
As for your point, I agree that people can mistake the euphoria of discovery with a thunderbolt from heaven. The question is, does the epiphany make them feel power or humility? My beef isn’t that people have convictions; I’ve got plenty of my own (like Michael Jordan shouldn’t have come out of retirement the second time and a 13-year-old boy is old enough to lift the damn toilet seat before he pees). My problem is with those who have convictions without humility.
I think the reason some people may mistake their own little epiphanies with messages from above is hubris. They’ve mistaken their inner voice with that of a god’s.
April 11th, 2006 @ 9:22 pm
Well, Angry Agnostic, your ego theory holds true in my case. I was very much ego-driven and recognition of that had much to do with my leaving religion.
I like your posting name, BTW. I hope you stick around here and keep commenting.
April 12th, 2006 @ 7:50 am
The one positive thing about religion is that it always leaves room so that those that are controlled by the gods and spirits are able to put the blame for wrongdoing on the controllers that control those who are controlled then lay back and watch. The pedophile priests were obviously not in control . There was someone else controlling their god at that time and that god was unable to step in and intervene and stop that sinful process. Maybe he was weak. Who knows .Jim and Tammy stuffed the britches with cash. God could do nothing . Jimmy Swaggert had a thing for prostitutes . God peeped in on them but did nothing . He’s saving it all for some cloying fantasy with gold streets and the works , how silly. He’s watching tragedy after tragedy and he won’t budge cause he’s about revenge and reward later. The exact same thing he says he hates he loves . Makes sense huh