19 Comments »

1. MomSquared:
   November 2nd, 2006 @ 5:42 pm

   Our kids are still young, but I suspect we’ll be about the same way, as I am an atheist and my husband is probably actually agnostic but practices some Judaism.

2. Mary:
   November 2nd, 2006 @ 11:08 pm

   I just stumbled across your blog the other day and have really enjoyed reading. The way you are bringing your children up is the way I’d like to raise my own. I’ve been struggling with the right way to “teach” them. I think I’m going to take your ideas and try them. Certainly couldn’t hurt anything. My children believe in a Heaven, but don’t really believe in God. I want them to believe in reason but at the same time, don’t want to force that upon them. They need to form their own opinions and I feel sometimes I influence them too much.

3. AnneA:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 10:17 am

   I also don’t “teach” my son about my beliefs. He’s 8 and doesn’t ask too much about it any more. He used to ask about God and “What religion are we?” types of questions. I’ve always just told him that our family believes in what we know, i.e., family, love, tradition, the earth, being good to each other, etc. Having no formal religious upbringing myself, I guess I find it normal NOT to discuss anything about God. But of course it comes up at school with his friends. I certainly hope he becomes a free-thinker and I’ll do my best to steer him in that direction. One of my biggest fears is that some day he’ll come to me to tell me he’s “found Jesus” or something. I shudder at the thought….

4. Patti:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 10:38 am

   We’re something the same…our oldest son became an atheist on his own at twelve when I was ‘recovering’ from Christianity. My second son is indifferent, my third son is proudly atheist.

   My daughter, age six, prays to her deceased gerbil!

5. Wendy:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 11:56 am

   I have been lurking on your Blog for quite some time and feel the need to comment now. We have been “home-churching” for about 5 years, after realizing that Christianity wasn’t right for us. I’m studying Buddhism, but I don’t view it as a religion so much as a philosophy (no gods). My husband is atheist. My son (12) is atheist, but believes strongly in reincarnation (and since he’s the one who almost/probably died, then who am I to question) and my daughter (9) says she’s Christian.

   I have more on our “home-churching” story at: http://www.geocities.com/alexgrace/church.html.

   I enjoy reading your blog. I’m so glad to hear that others out there are teaching their kids to think for themselves, rather than be mindless sheep. Thanks so much.

6. Laura:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 3:07 pm

   Great post, Noelle.
   What I would have given for such an open and honest freethinking household when I was growing up. Sometimes I think it might have been if my previously-atheist Dad had never joined the Mormon church.
   And I’m going to have to get Wired now. Thanks for the heads-up.

7. GlendaS.:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 10:33 pm

   === I have usually tried to explain that some people believe this, some people believe that. I often ask them what they believe. ===

   That is what we do here, and I love hearing my son’s answers because they are HIS beliefs. He’s not regurgitating information that he’s been told he has to believe or which he’s been told is the “right” thing to believe. Although his beliefs are generally the same as mine and DH’s, there are areas in which he believes differently . . . and that’s okay. He is not Mini-Me; he is his own person. And I wouldn’t have it any other way!

8. Gregg100:
   November 3rd, 2006 @ 11:03 pm

   I have not read the article in “Wired” but the title headline has something that I have been seeing more and more of lately and that is the concept of science as an alternative to religion. I have a very religious relative that often sends me religious inspirational writings. I would like to quote the latest email
   “I just can’t believe that our bodies were made up by some big bang, without some “being” creating all the things that brought us all about. I am in process of reading an interesting book, “The Case for a Creator” by Lee Strobel. He is also author of “The Case for Christ” and “The Case for Faith.” I have not read his earlier books, but may get to them. He is a former atheist, and one of his quotes is, “My road to atheism was paved by science…but, ironically, so was my later journey to God.” He has done a lot of scientific research and disproved a lot of what they are teaching about how the universe was begun after the big bang. He does not disprove the fact that it might have all started with the big bang, but he certainly now believes there had to be a Creator.

   I am comfortable with our faith, and know that we have been truly blessed in so many ways…not just luck, but truly blessed by God. ., and we don’t feel it was just an act of nature, and that nature or “something scientific” has given us so much. Our prayers have been answered many times when things looked bleak, and I don’t feel it was anything scientific.”

   You can easily see the linking of science as an alternative to religion.
   Now to relate that to raising children, I feel it is important to make the distinction and isolate the concepts into two independent “buckets” so that children have it clear in their mind. Science is a way to study how natural things work. Religion is a discussion about supernatural beings. Scientists cannot work with religious concepts and practitioners of the religious dogmas should not make statements that invoke the facts of nature. The problem occurs when either the scientist or the religious person crosses the line. I think it is a major contribution to a child’s upbringing to teach him or her how to recognize when this occurs. When a religious person talks about rising from the dead, walking on water, bushes burning without being consumed, he or she is trespassing on natural laws. At the same time, when I scientist gains some understanding of the grandeur of some natural phenomenon and is so taken that he concludes it must have divine origin, he is likewise trespassing on religious dogma.

   There is no “great debate” over the existence of some form of supernatural, conscious being called “God”, “Allah”, or any other name. Either a person believes it or not and there is currently no way to prove either position. It is as simple as that. Trinity happens to have chosen one way and others happen to chose another and it makes no sense to even argue the point. It would be equivalent to arguing with Trinity if she said her favorite color is blue. It is nonsense to argue such a thing.

9. ffuege:
   November 4th, 2006 @ 7:37 am

   I’m interested in your definitions for the difference between the meaning of atheist and agnostic since you label a family with a mix of beliefs as overall agnostic. I find that an interesting view to say that since “we” do not collectively know for certain then “we” are an agnostic belief.

   Bertrand Russell said: “An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.”

   I sum up this view as:
   Atheist: natural creation – no belief in the supernatural
   Agnostic: unknown creation – humanity has no clue about the supernatural

   My personal Agnostic view is that “unknown IS the answer.” I am content that I do not have to actively search for the answers of our creation and that we are just too simple to understand such things. Even though I am atheistic about all religions created by humanity I do not dismiss the possibility of all that would be considered supernatural so I remain Agnostic.

10. Shannon:
    November 4th, 2006 @ 9:14 am

    What a great post.

    My husband is an athiest… a professional one at that. I’m Agnostic, sort of sitting on the fence for someone to prove to me there is a god.

    Our girls are young – just nine months old. The dog has more importance in their world than even we do right now. But when the times come, we will share our beliefs, and like you let them draw thier own conclusions.

11. Krisco:
    November 4th, 2006 @ 9:13 pm

    I have only visited your blog a few times before and re-found it tonight. So I don’t remember if your children’s names on the blog are actual or pseudonyms.

    If actual – the irony of your daughter named Trinity believing in the Trinity.

    Or perhaps that is why you gave her the pseudonym, and I am technically too dense to visit this site again.

12. Ron:
    November 5th, 2006 @ 10:21 am

    That Wired featured a cover article on “The New Athiesm” is no small matter – I rushed out to get one as soon as I heard, and I’ll now subscribe with a letter explaining that their focus on the subject is the reason for my subscription. Other readers here may be interested in knowing that a subscription is only ten bucks – and if you feel left behind on some issues of science and technology in our culture, its a bargain.

    Noell – just out of curiosity – who teaches Trinity that about the trinity? Do they do it regularly? Do you think that her name predisposes her toward an affinity for the idea of those characters from the Bible (though it makes me think of the Matrix – cause I’m a geek) ?

    Do you think Trinity feels the desire to be different from Blake? This seems likely to become an interesting subject for your family.

    I’m curious about whether birth order and the process of forming one’s personality may encourage some children to pursue religion more than others.

13. C. L. Hanson:
    November 12th, 2006 @ 12:48 am

    I guess my kids are getting what could be termed an atheistic upbringing — so far it’s been characterized by a total absence of any discussion of the subject. My kids’ ages are 5 and 3, and as far as I know, they’re blissfully unaware that religion even exists.

    Our family was at a bookstore the other day letting Nico and Leo pick out some new books. (Their big things these days is whales and dolphins — I guess they’re taking a break from being obsessed with trains. I wanted some primate books since we were getting animal books, but didn’t see any good ones.) There I saw a nice picture book explaining the history of religion from ancient to modern times plus explanations of all of the major world religions (their histories, how they’re related to one another, etc.).

    I wanted to get the book since I know my kids are going to hear about religion, and I guess I’d rather they learn about it at home first. My husband’s reaction was basically “Aren’t they a little young to be learning about such things?” I think I’ll get it though, since it won’t hurt to have it sitting on the shelf for when the subject comes up.

    At the rate we’re going, the first time someone asks one of my kids if he beliieves in god, his response is going to be “God? What’s that?” lol

    Even though they’re young, I should probably work on that…

14. Noell:
    November 12th, 2006 @ 8:28 am

    Chanson–Your comment made me smile! It’s so different for each of our kids. My kids started out steeped in Mormonism and they are constantly around religious people watching then pray!

15. Juno Walker:
    November 21st, 2006 @ 3:49 pm

    Noell,

    I can’t now remember how I stumbled upon your blog – maybe through the New Jersey Humanist Network – but I admire your courage in raising your family in this way and in blogging about it.

    I have a friend who is a single mom, and I turned her onto your site a while back. While I think that she would call herself an atheist if she took the time to go through all the revelant arguments, she is an ‘agnostic mom’ too. I think your blog has given her courage as well.

    I am an atheist with a naturalistic worldview – yes, a ‘bright’ – and I have just started my own blog to chronicle my attempt to live with the knowledge that there is no God, no Free Will, no Self and no ultimate meaning or purpose to life.

    I train dogs to guide those who are blind, and I teach my blind students dog psychology and how to use and care for a dog guide. Between animals and humans, there are plenty of opportunities to put my naturalistic worldview into pracitce!

    I hope you’ll check out my blog when you have chance. The site address is http://daseindharma.blogspot.com

    Best,
    Juno

16. Jennifer:
    December 5th, 2006 @ 4:33 am

    I know this question was already raised, but I don’t think answered, who teaches your daughter about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit? (I’m agnostic, just wondering).

17. Angel Gillette:
    December 5th, 2006 @ 5:59 pm

    I have just encountered something with my children tonight that I ended up doing some research online and ended up here at your blog. My hubby and I have been having some major issues with raising our children this past year with our oldest children (2 boys ages 9 & 11). The lack of respect and just pure selfishness we have been witnessing amongst the two has been shocking.

    I can go on and on about the unbelievable things that they have been doing, etc. I have raised them (we have raised them) to be able to make their own religous choices as we are agnostic. I was raised believing in God and went to Catholic school as a child. Slowly but surely I started questioning and soon enough I was like ???? hold on a minute – I am not going to keep on this track when too many things are unanswered. When I started having children the question of religion was far away and I didn’t necessarily worry too much about it – until now. I have been battling my brain for an answer as to what the heck can we do differently with these children??? We have researched the psychology of it all, we have done all the sticker charts, rewards, individual time, daily goals, attention, spoiling, yelling, grounding to which nothing has worked. After all we have done???

    Tonight (before reading you blog) my hubby (when all else failed) mentioned to our boys – what about the Ten Commandments and for other people, truly caring? The boys said “What are the Ten Commandments”? I found my answer tonight as to why they don’t seem to even care about anyone but themselves and are disrespectful, selfish, cruel, etc. to eachother & their parents. I never would believe it was a “lack of God” thing as I do not have “God” in my life and I am a good individual who believes in doing the right thing, etc. I am afraid that I am a “decent and good” human being because I was raised Catholic. I was raised by the “Laws of God” and they were instilled in me at a young age. I think even though later in life I discovered I didn’t believe what I was taught – it somehow shaped me as a “good & decent” individual if that makes any sense??? I am worried that my boys being raised on making their own decisions – has eliminated that “the right thing to do attitude” Is it possible religion could be used as a child raising technique in an effort not to raise a rude, selfish and disrespectful member of society??? And once they become old enough to comprehend all of the information available – they can decide for themselves all the while being raised with morals and values??? I am not sure what more we can do to have them comprehend values and morals without introducing some “higher power”??? Any comments or suggestions would be beneficial. Thank you.

18. Anonymous:
    March 23rd, 2007 @ 4:39 pm

    To Angel and others who have the same question,

    There’s no real difference between getting the moral codes from fearing a supernatural power and from parents whipping their butts. I think it’s better to teach them to learn how to put their own feet in other’s shoes.

19. Steve K:
    November 9th, 2007 @ 9:12 pm

    Agnostic Mom – Nice site, I like your attitude on raising kids, free thinkers, etc. I too am agnostic, and have always allowed my kids to have their own leanings. If we tell them to stand up for themselves and ask questions, they will challenge what they don’t understand, and not accept what doesn’t make sense. (my daughter’s attended church on occasion with a few friends – apparantly she asks too many questions that can’t be answered! tee-hee. But still, if she ends up a holy roller, that’ll be her choice.

    To Angel, I do not think Christianity morally shapes us any more than the physical world around us. I belielve our children are better off if we are honest with them about our beliefs, and that we don’t have to hold up the ten commandments to them to introduce morals/goodness. I believe that religion to many people provides another excuse to not parent. (Let god/church/school do it). My girlfriend doesn’t understand how I can be good person without a belief in God. As if Christianity has a lock on virtues/etc. I also believe that kids who are always totally obedient are the most vulnerable later in life (to going to the other extreme). We should all have healthy and occasional periods of rebelliousness.
    Enough ranting…

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