Coming Out Of The Closet As Atheist or Agnostic
A lot of you have asked me to address the topic of social interaction as a non-believer. Let me start with the topic of “coming out” to those who always knew us as a religious church-goer; to those who are likely to see major changes in us and wonder why. We can talk about social interactions, or coming out to those who do not know our religious or non-religious background in a later post.
I was really nervous about the social implications when I stopped going to the Mormon church and became an atheist/agnostic. The religion I came from forces you to make a choice: Either come out of the closet so you can live your life the way you think is appropriate, or stay hidden and live the rules of the Mormon Church. I came out of the closet because my sister was about to get married in the LDS (Mormon) temple. You have to hold what is called a “recommend” in order to go in. My recommend had expired during the time that I was trying to figure out my beliefs. I could not get a new one and keep my integrity in tact because you must proclaim your belief that Jesus is the Christ and Joseph Smith was his prophet in order to do so.
By the time of the wedding I had confirmed to myself that I was not a believer. Rather than lie, I decided to tell my family that I would not be going through the temple for the wedding and the reason was that I no longer believed the church was true. And in fact, I was an atheist. (I called myself an atheist before I decided to call myself an agnostic. To me it is all semantics and a bit problematic). I suppose I didn’t have to tell the reasons why, but it has never been in my nature to act like someone I am not. I was never shy about being a Mormon and I am not shy about being agnostic.
Of course, telling my parents was one of the hardest things to do. They didn’t take it well. But after four and a half years they have seen that I am not backing down, they have seen that my children continue to hold excellent standards and principles, they have seen that I have a presence in the secular/humanist community, and they have seen that I am happy and non-disruptive to their religious lives. It has gotten better with them year after year and I now feel mostly satisfied with where we are in our relationship.
When I left religion, I also felt a need to tell my current friends. One reason was because I held many leadership positions, never missed church, and was very involved. The other was because Mormons have strict rules about clothing; rules which are absurd for people in desert climates to abide by. I was happy to be able to dress in less constricting clothes that were much more appropriate. But it was a shock to all my friends for me to suddenly expose my shoulders. It may seem silly to someone who is not from the Mormon culture, but it is scandalous for a Mormon not to abide by the dress code if they once had. People usually suspect that marriage infidelity led to the change.
So, it was awkward in the beginning feeling compelled to announce my change to my friends at their first sight of me in un-Mormonish clothing. I didn’t want them to assume the wrong things about me. The revelation of my non-belief shocked and hurt them. I received many warnings from people who had “gone astray” at one time and and regretted it. Still, as awkward as it was, I think is beneficial. It is beneficial to our community because it spreads the word that nontheists are normal people. It is beneficial to ourselves because 1) It takes us out of our comfort zone, and that is always healthy! 2) It frees us up to be who we are and not have to hide.
Thankfully, I am past that phase now, of having to come out to current friends who had always known me as religious. My main interaction now is with people who never knew me as Mormon. For them it is only about discovering that I don’t believe in any religion, period. And that is a whole different situation. We’ll come to that in a separate post.
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January 10th, 2007 @ 9:32 am
Coming out or making major changes in one’s fundamental convictions takes courage. It’s like molting or shedding skin; a very painful and vulnerable process. The unacceptable alternative is to stop growing and die a slow suffocation. I applaud your courage.
Labels like atheist or agnostic are by definition, religious terms; they describe a person’s relationship with the concept of God. The atheist claims God does not exist. The agnostic claims no one can know God; that God is out of reach. If one presupposes a meaningful purpose beyond survival, reproduction and appetite satisfaction, the atheist or agnostic must discover it without God’s help or obligation. If this purpose is important enough to be accountable or responsible to accomplish, learning it is (1) an invention within ourselves, (2) our agreement with someone’s persuasive argument, or (3) our understanding about God is profoundly wrong, and we have the foolish audacity to deny it.
The Reality of God is actually quite easy to prove personally, for oneself. If one’s existence has a purpose important enough to be accountable for, that accountability must be settled at some point in time or dimension, and the Court must be fair (or what’s the point), so one must possess everything one needs to fulfill one’s purpose every moment of one’s life. The Judge must teach us that purpose and the terms of one’s fulfillment, however we may comprehend it. It’s all a vocabulary problem from there.
If we are only accountable to ourselves, as atheism and agnosticism demand, then we are condemned to Darwinian survival of the strongest, most forceful majority; morality is a fiction (but a very effective crowd control tool), and our hope is that we can all get along or be blessed to live in the strongest tribe. One must be circumspect; the genocides of the previous century, led by Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, were all atheists or agnostics; certainly not Buddhist, Jewish, Christian, or Moslem, notwithstanding the edge warfare where Islam (almost exclusively) seeks to expand.
All this to say, shedding an inadequate dictionary or vocabulary about God, such as abandoning Mormonism’s dictionary, should not be confused with abandoning God, per se. It may be a necessary step in a more truthful Understanding.
January 10th, 2007 @ 10:39 am
I also applaud your courage, Noell! Coming out of a religious family is never easy, especially one oneself is so deeply involved.
Onto Rosen’s comment, though, in which you stated: “the genocides of the previous century, led by Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, were all atheists or agnostics”
Hitler was very much an avowed Christian (although one could argue the merits of his actions proving he was not; but that’s not the point. If Hitler truly believed he was a Christian and doing everything he did for the greatness of Germany and God, he was a Christian–see my pst about him here)…
As for Stalin and Mao–true, the claimed the mantel’s of agnosticism and atheism, but in the way they led their respective countries, they turned the idea of communism itself into a religious philosophy; they even went so far as to make sure they were the ones being worshipped. So in a sense, yes, they were atheists, but the way they ran their countries was very much in the way a religious dictatorship or theocracy would have been run. The root idea of communism being collective living had been around for ages and ages before either of these two made it into a governmental philosophy, but they brought it to a whole new level. And while they banned conventional religious institutions of the day under the guise of atheism, they in turn set themselves up to be gods, worshipped by their people, provider (or not-so-much a provider as history as shown) of their people–the end-all, be-all.
So I guess all this to say that while they may have claimed a mantel of disbelief in god(s), their leanings to turn their governments into a religious organization complete with rituals sort of makes it it’s own religion… And much like cults (or even religious institutions in general), it became a very dangerous tool for controlling the masses in the very way the Stalin and Mao hated religious institutions for doing…
Oh, the ironies…
January 10th, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Jason is right. Hitler was a Catholic: ‘You will find it in Mein Kampf.- “Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord’s work.”‘ (http://skeptically.org/againstreligion/id13.html)
January 10th, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Thanks for sharing. This is something I ahve been going through recently. I even met with my bishop a few times and discussed it. I shared with him that although I was leaving the church I was still temple worthy (besides the whole belief thing), and that I wasn’t doing it so I would have freedom to do things I was previously restricted from. Even after telling him this, he asked me if I ever cheated on my wife. It is funny that this is the “sin” that most people assume happens whn one leaves the church.
January 10th, 2007 @ 11:32 am
I find that it is not my mother nor my sisters who are bothered by my lack of faith, but my brothers and their very devote Catholic wives. My Catholic friends are okay with me and we can joke about a lot of religious things. I’m more nervous around my Baptist and born-again friends. I keep my views to myself around them. I focus on the other aspects of life where we do have similar views and interests. I secretly keep in mind that I can be a positive role model for their kids and maybe infect their way of thinking later in life :0). I find that now that I have expanded my mind, I have more friends from a variety of faiths, including Buddhism and Hinduism. I feel freer now to listen to the wisdom of the ages from around the world — and also smirk at the silliness of some ideas. I realise also that I need to laugh at a lot of my own deeply held ideas. I know I need to challenge myself.
January 10th, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Oh, hooray, I’m glad you posted this. I’ll be interested to read your thoughts on explaining your (lack of) beliefs to newer acquaintances when you write that.
As you might have seen, I finally posted my “coming out” — complete with a link to one of your posts on leaving the church. It’s not that you “convinced” me to come out, per se — more that your own words reflected what I already felt and gave me a good starting point for thinking out loud.
My parents (born-again fundamentalists, but quite nice ones) will be heartbroken when I tell them, and I’m dreading that day. It’s coming soon; my husband and I are working on a document about “appropriate religious conduct” related to my daughter and any future kids we may have. Coming home from our honeymoon in Costa Rica to find my 2-year-old talking about both Santa and Baby Jesus was a little distressing — a wake-up call that we have to do this soon. It’s reassuring to see that someone else has gone through this issue, and reminds me that I *can* survive.
Thanks for that.
As for J Rosen’s comen, feh. You lost my respect at The atheist claims God does not exist. Wrong. An atheist does not believe in God — a very different proposition from “believes there is no God.” For the rest of your arguments, those have been debunked…time…and again…and again. Think for yourself and come up with something new, please.
January 10th, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
(I apologize for this off-topic rebuttal) Of course Hitler was not an authentic Catholic (that’s just silly); that is to propose a moral equivalence between, say, Mother Theresa and a psychopath. It’s like asking God to bless one’s efforts to burgle someone’s home, and thinking one is Godly for it! — it’s absurd! If anything, Hitler used the Catholic Church for political means to advance Aryanism and rabid anti-Semitism. Thousands of authentic Christians – Catholic and Evangelishe were murdered in Nazi concentration camps. We may not all agree what Catholicism IS, but we certainly know what it is NOT.
My intent was to praise AgnosticMom’s courage in being true to herself and living an life honest enough sacrifice family ties. I merely suggested (poorly, it seems) the atheist’s and agnostic’s conviction about the nonexistence or unknowableness of God may only be declaration of what God is NOT, based on one’s experience, so far. As if to say, “I don’t like any version of God I’ve encountered, so the jury’s out!” If one were encounter a (the) God that reveals a more complete, fulfilling reality (then the Godless alternative), then one would rationally embrace God. I’m only proposing that we might be too smart for our britches, sometimes. This is a profoundly personal conclusion that, as I outlined in my previous post, requires God to prove it (if one’s purpose is externally defined, etc.). So if God can’t personally prove it, (a) God doesn’t exist or (b) one is in a state of profound cognitive dissonance — for who could resist God and maintain their sanity?
The hypothesis that God exists is provable, if one is willing to let God use God’s own vocabulary. The agnostic or atheist may just have a little higher burden of proof. Fair enough.
January 10th, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
It has been a while since I have writen, but you need to know that what you say and how you approach situations means so much to me and probably a bunch of other readers too. When I first started telling people that I was agnostic/atheist about a year ago. I wasn’t scared to tell new people because they didn’t know anything other than who I am now. It was my current or old friends that was so hard to tell. I totally blew it out of proportion and said that non of my Christian friends understood and it’s so rude they push their views on me. Then the more and more I thought about it and I started to refletc on how I was approaching the situation. Come to realize not all of my “christian friends” gave me negative reactions only 1 did and that one person made me so angry I couldn’t get past the fact that the rest of my friends where okay with it. Your column and blog have helped me calm down. I have a learned to approach situations much more open minded, calm and clear headed. I really had to relax and start doing that right away or I wasn’t doing myself or family any good. At first I wanted to only join atheist or agnostic mom clubs and now I am part of a very nice mixed group of moms (agnostic,mormon, jewish, catholic ect.) and we try to find common ground and appreciate ones beliefs and or non-religious beliefs. They are so kind they are going to celebrate Darwin day with me (the Morman Mom’s are not going to participate, but understand why I want to) and my daughter and I had fun at Christmas time with them. Anyway I digress…it’s a new year and it sounds like you have been through a lot this past year and you needed to know that you are appreciated. Even if it’s in cyber-space but you have changed a very bitter jaded person into a kinder gentler person. Thanks for your blog and keep the HNN column coming.
January 10th, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
I have not believed in anything supernatural since I was a junior in high school. I was a very active Episcopalian (originally Church of England), never missed a Sunday in 11 years, alter boy for 4 years, worked at all the church “socials†and holiday events, etc. One Sunday, as I mouthing the words of the Nicene Creed, I suddenly realized I didn’t really believe a word I was saying. That was the end of that. I’ve never been back. There was a big group my age in the church and when I explained my views I really had no problems with my friends. In fact, it was more a sense of curiosity. “OK, then what DO you believe?†I have been working on that for about the last 50 years. At the time, I simply said that I believed that the natural universe is all there is and I was not willing to give up on trying to learn about it by relegating the unknown to the supernatural. That seemed to be an adequate response and no one seemed to take offense.
By the mid 1970’s I had read E. O. Wilson’s early books and agreed with him completely when he said that there is a whole field of knowledge that has come to be known as sociobiology that needs so much work and holds so much potential for explaining many of the human behaviors, including the propensity to develop religions in almost every culture. Are we “hardwired†to be religious? Are there Darwinian explanations for such tendencies? The answers remain “to be determined†and progress since the ‘70’s has been surprisingly slow. If we are hardwired, and I suspect we are, religions will not go away anytime soon.
Why would our friends be upset if we “drop out� A simplified, pseudoDarwinian explanation might suggest that it is viewed as a threat to the group or clan or tribe and thus a threat to the successful thriving of the individuals. Are our friends reacting to hardwired intuitions below the level of consciousness? It is unknown for sure but the question is valid and data is being collected. (see “Are We Hardwired†by Clark and Grunstein) As I said before, much work needs to be done
January 10th, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
Noell,
Your “coming out” has obviously caused complications with family and friends. It does take courage to stand up and declare your position in the knowledge that people you know and love may not take the revelation well. As you indicate, it has affected a number of your relationships.
I had the luxury, if you want to call it that, of not having to deal with it within my family as most of them have passed away. I lost my father in 1978. My mother held on for a goodly long while until 1999, but I never felt the need to discuss my position as regards god and religion with either of them. My oldest brother was a fundamentalist minister, and I did reveal my lack of a belief in god to him, but he only scoffed and said that, eventually I would come around as I came closer to dealing with my mortality – sort of that “no atheists in foxholes” mentality. My eldest brother died in 1989. My other brother knows where I satand, but is so ambivilant regarding religion that he doesn’t care one way or the other. It simply has no meaning to him.
As I’ve stated, I have been rather circumspect around my wife’s Italian catholic family, but in recent years I believe the cat has escaped the bag. So far, no one has called me on it. We’ll see.
To go off topic, in response to J Rosen, I fully agree with Jason as regards Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Jason and Lisa noted that Hitler was a catholic. It is true that Hitler aligns himself with god and invokes him in “Mein Kampf” and a number of his stump speeches. He was not a fan of the church per se, and often reviled religious institutions. However, there is no evidence that he turned away from god. He, like Stalin and Mao did change the focus from god to the state, “the fatherland.” All three substituted “the state” for god and religion.
Nevertheless, the actions of these people and their cohorts does not serve as a meaningful damnation of atheists. No doubt, there are atheists who are bad people. But history is littered with thousands of murderous bastards who invoked god as the source of their ideology, and as an all too convenient excuse for mass murder and genocide. How many thousands of people does the bible indicate were murdered at the direct behest of god?
As regards to some other statements you made, namely that you claim that without god “morality is a fiction.” That is outrageous bullpucky! Man can and has formulated significant moral guideposts for living in a civilized society without the aid of god. Yes, Darwinian survival comes into play, but look at the US Constitution. It is wholly a secular document which may well be the single greatest political treatise ever written. It lays out, in grand fashion how a just society should be carried out. It is not without its flaws, but warts and all, it has maintained for over 200 years and the count continues.
If there is a “meaning” to life beyond our comfort and survival, you are correct, it is and will be up to us as individuals and as a society to define it. I certainly don’t predict success in this endeavor – we are a capricious lot, but I do believe we are capable of achieving it, without god.
TLS
January 11th, 2007 @ 12:45 am
It is beneficial to our community because it spreads the word that nontheists are normal people.
I couldn’t agree more with this statement.
January 11th, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
Wow, that must have been hard!!!
Personally, I was pretty lucky in terms of coming out as a non-believer because it coincided with another big transition: setting off for grad school. So basically I I was in a position where I was changing my social group entirely, and my new friends never knew me as a Mormon. I feel like that made the transition a lot less difficult.
January 11th, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
I’m glad of your personal journey. Yet, just as the migrating salmon must be relieved when finally leaving the ocean for the fresh waters of the river, far more effort will be required in the swim ahead.
Being ‘out’ isn’t an end, it’s almost not even the beginning. Religious folk are far from tolerant, they socialize and network voluntarily only within their own community. God (whichever one it might be) is a God of love only if you believe in ‘that’ God. For those of us who have been ‘out’ and in the swim for a long time, the daily issue becomes; “they don’t like me anymore (after trying to convert me didn’t work), they interact with me now only reluctantly (on the off-chance they still might be able to), how do I move forward in an environment that is pushing really, really, hard in the opposite direction?” The introduction of the internet has offered us a broader networking opportunity not so much for answers as support. Just keep in mind, the journey isn’t so much about the destination as it is about a better tomorrow for our children.
January 12th, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Maintaining one’s integrity is certainly tantamount to exposing the sinister approaches to disbelief the church employs . Very good Ms Noell the steps you are taking seem to have positive roots both for you and your children . I applaud you!! We must remember what we deal with when we deal with believers of ghost stories and other things related to fantasies run amok. Those of us who realize the falacies are the lucky ones who get to wear shoulderless jersey’s on a hot day.
January 13th, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Just when you thought it was safe to get used to the green layout…
Just when you thought red flowers were so last year…
Just when you thought it wasn’t posh for Ag’s and Athee’s to embrace change…
The Original Layout Returns…
I missed the flowers… It helps me to hope for spring…
January 13th, 2007 @ 4:00 pm
Hello everyone –
I recently started a blog called Dasein & Dharma: Exploring what it means to be a human being, given a naturalistic worldview. What I mean by that is I essentially have no belief in God or gods; I don’t believe we have a soul or even a permanent Self; and I don’t believe humans have Free Will. I also don’t believe there is any ultimate purpose or meaning to existence. I believe humans create their own meaning and purpose.
But my blog is about trying to live with that knowledge having already moved past it, if that makes sense. I posted my de-conversion story on my blog. The link is here:
http://daseindharma.blogspot.com/2006/11/autobiographical-sketch.html
I didn’t talk in that post about the actual conversation I had with my parents, however. I am not married and I have no children, and the woman I was dating at the time was for all intents and purposes an atheist – she was a secular Jew.
To make a long story short, my father is extremely intellectual and lacking in empathy; my mother is the opposite – wearing her heart on her sleeve. So when I told them I no longer believed in God, my father tried quite heatedly to convince me I was wrong (by looking at the ‘evidence’), and my mother just cried and kept asking “Why?”
My parents and I have since refrained from discussing most aspects of religion, and we actually have quite a nice relationship. But when my father dogmatically states that Eastern religions are false ( I have an interest in what might be called ‘secular’ Buddhism) and that global warming is a hoax perpetrated by godless liberals, well – I tend to get my hackles up. But I hold my tongue as best I can.
If anyone is interested in how someone without any belief in God or a Self or Free Will or even meaning or purpose lives his life, please check out my blog by clicking on my name above. I’m always looking for sincere and thoughtful people to join the conversation there.
Best,
Juno
January 14th, 2007 @ 3:59 am
i’m sorry j. rosen but hitler was a christian, as is george w. bush and we can all see what he is doing
January 14th, 2007 @ 6:31 am
Living in the United Kingdom, it often astounds me to read about those who ‘came out’ where religion is concerned and found this to be a turbulent and difficult time for them in their lives. Surely this is indicative of the almost oppressive presence of religion (Christianity) in America. It came to my attention in 2006 that George Bush has stated that he does not consider atheists to be true citizens of the USA. It also astounds me that this statement was met with so little protest.
It seems to me that America needs a major attitude adjustment. Lets not forget that Mr Bush’s statement was tantamount to stating that he does not believe Muslims or Jews to be citizens of the United States.
Congratulations Noell on what I can only imagine must have been a difficult decision in your life. Here’s to the eventual loosening of the religious far right strangle hold on America, Land of the free…
January 14th, 2007 @ 10:32 am
This to Joe,
If I’m not mistaken, it was not our current president, GW Bush who made the statement about non-believers, but his father GHW Bush. I beleive it went thus:
“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under god.”
My source for this was not first-hand, but rather from Dawkins’ “The God Delusion.” I do not know specifically when or under what circumstances Poppa Bush uttered this bit of outlandish drivel, and it may well be that Junior – or “Shrub” as Molly Ivins refers to him has since reiterated this notion. Under the circumstances, it seems unlikely that Georgy would have been so injudicious as to make such an exclusionary statement, at least since he’s been habitating on Pennsylvania Ave. But, obviously the thread is there. As I’ve stated at my place, atheists and agnostics are tolerated less in American society than gays, who, nevertheless remain a vilified target of the right.
The only point that can be made in either Bush’s defense, I guess is, if I am accurately quoting whichever Bush may have uttered the comment, it does not target non-christians, per se, only non-believers. Of course, the followers of each and every different religion necessarily look upon all others as infidels marching along the wrong path, and who are, as a result and in effect non-believers, placing their bets on the wrong horse.
TLS
January 19th, 2007 @ 11:39 am
As one who often keeps his atheism hidden, partly out of fear, partly out of respect for the opinions of others and mostly to avoid the unwinnable and tedious agruments that usually follow (if you are willing to accept the existance of gods despite no irrefutable evidence of their/its/his existance, why even bother entering into a discussion based on logic), I found your story touching. I admire your bravery and I am glad you and your family appear to have moved beyond this difference.
Wouldn’t it be nice if atheists everywhere felt the freedom and acceptance to be able to state their beliefs and have them just accepted as that: different beliefs. I have never, ever entered into a discussion where I argue the merits of atheism that was not started by a member of some religion (usually Christian) who is confronting me and demanding I justify my position.
This is evidenced by J Rosen’s comment which quickly moves past the point of your blog entry (coming out as an atheist–interesting how the appropriation of the term usually reserved for actions of the gay community is an easy one to use for atheists–in many ways the risks are similar) and coopt it into a pro-theist critique of your position. Leaving aside the self-serving tautology of his logic and his limited (but typical) understanding of Darwinian theory, it is interesting how, in your statement of freedom from religion, he can’t deal with letting you go and claims that atheism is, by definition (who’s one wonders?) a religious term. What part of free from religion did you not understand? This is followed by a chain of statements about what atheists believe–you are not one, so please do not pretend to know the details of this position.
Just accept that it is possible for others to have a different viewpoint and leave it at that.
Perhaps a more helpful addition to the discussion would be why you, as a christian, have this irrisistible urge to either critique the atheist’s postion or make them defend their position. If this urge wasn’t so strong and so ubiquitous, the whole “atheist coming out” process would be that much less of a heartache.
And by the way, atheists or not, the folks mentioned in your discussion did not wage their disgusting programs of destruction in the name of atheism. They were simply demagogues who used dogma as a means to their ends. I’ll leave it to you to ponder the obvious linkages to religion.
Again, thanks for the story and the insights.
January 24th, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
Hello Noell,
I have been reading your blog for a few months, and there are a few questions I feel compelled to ask. This is meant to be a genuine inquiry, and not a personal attack. One of the questions that reading Agnostic Mom has raised for me is: What does it truly mean to live a life as an atheist? Sure the easy answer is to live a life without religious faith or belief, but what about without -religious behavior-? Your behavior and lifestyle as an atheist seems nearly indifferent to me from a person of faith. So that raises the question: Why do you feel it is so important to distinguish yourself from someone who is of a religious background? And, are there really substantial differences between the lifestyle of an atheist from that of a person of faith that merits being distinguished?
When you step back and look at it, Agnostic Mom, and your involvement with the HNN all revolve around religion. It is the true driving force behind your participation. It seems to me that by trying to denounce religion, and assert that you have done so, you have actually immersed your daily life in it. It also seems that some atheists are so caught up in professing their lack of religion, that they have inadvertently become reliant on it to identify who they are.
So, is it really worth the effort?
To be fair, I should state that I am agnostic to some degree. However, I feel more comfortable with not being labeled when it comes to my own position on religion. Also, I suppose it would be fair to state that I am a 22 year old college student. So even though I am not a mom myself, I really enjoy your blog and the discussions you have here.
Note:
Martin almost touches on these questions above. However when he asks, “What part of free from religion did you not understand?” my question is, are you really free?
January 25th, 2007 @ 10:40 am
I am also an agnostic mom and I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts here.
I came to realize I was an agnostic fairly early. As a teen I was very involved in the youth community at my family’s church, it was very social. Then as expected I started confirmation classes at 13…I dropped out of class “to think about things”. I started classes again (at my mothers insistence) I was 14 this time I started classes with my 13 year old brother. I think my mom thought that the 2 of us together would push each other through. The opposite happened, within 6 months I had defined myself as an agnostic and he as an atheist. That was 20 years ago, we are now both married to our high school sweethearts and between the 2 of us, we have 6 kids and my parents now brag about raising free thinking children.
I never had issues with other people accepting me until just this year. I have chosen to homeschool my kids for educational reasons. Most people assume that I homeschool for religious reasons and fellow homeschoolers most defiantly assume we are Christian. I do not walk up to a group of homeschooling moms with my hand stretched out and announce that I am an agnostic. But when the topic does come up, I have found it “amusing” to watch how fast I have been separated from a group of homeschool moms just by informing them that not only do I not go to church, that I am not a Christian but that I am an agnostic. This floors their sensibilities, they have no way to grasp that concept at all.
Luckily we have found a couple families that are similar in our ways of thinking. But truthfully, part of me feels guilty for taking the sense of community away from my children that being Christian offers.
January 30th, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Thank you for the post and the blog. Congratulations, btw, on reaching your goal. An awesome one. I write a corporate blog and I don’t get numbers near that, it’s a testament to your writing and ideas. I can tell how heartening it is for so many of us to hear from similar voices. I’m lucky enough to live in an area where agnosticism makes more of a mark than Christianity, Judaism, or Hinduism, and I’m glad for that. My trouble is not only dealing with my family, who remain very Catholic, but finding out my next steps. I love religion and I still am moved to tears when entering a church, but I cannot in my heart accept the dogma. Like Julie Sweeney, I did want to see “what else was out there”, but the truth is, all religions come with their dogma, it’s just something you have to either deal with or believe. I’ll be interested in keeping up with your writings in the months to come. Thanks again.
February 28th, 2008 @ 11:49 am
I just stumbled on to your blog here. I just wanted to say you are a great inspiration to me. I recently realized I was agnostic/atheist and the relief I feel is simply amazing. I’m not lying to myself or anyone else anymore and my real self can shine without restriction. I just had to say thank you for the inspiring message!
August 31st, 2008 @ 5:10 am
Xanax side effects….
Xanax 2mg no prescription. Xanax addiction. Xanax effect. Generic xanax….
January 19th, 2010 @ 7:33 am
Blame it on my parents. They always told me to “think for myself”. I doubt they ever considered what would happen if I really did that.
Now, I suspect what they meant was, “Think what we tell you but do it in your own words.” Too late. When I was 13, I began to question everything and soon the total absurdity of religion became apparent.
Because I have been “encouraged” (forced) to read the bible many times, it was easy for me to see the contradictions in the book, what christians professed to believe, and how they lived.
When I refused to go with them to their church, they said they “Would make me go.”
I asked them, “How will forcing me to attend church change my mind?” Already, their attitude was starting to harden me against everything else they would tell me.
Their next idea was to have their minister talk to me. I told them it was a waste of everyone’s time. They persisted and had him come to the house to “Talk some sense into me.” (as if they ever works for anyone) After about 15 minutes, of him quoting the bible to me and me pointing out that he was either wrong in his quotes or showing him how it said something else in another place, he became very angry and told me I was going to hell. I suspect it was because I knew the bible better than he did and was, at age 13, able to prove how ridiculous his arguments were.
I told him, “If there is a Hell I’ll see you there. Save me a nice place, OK?” He said I was an impertinent, disrespectful child. By then, I was angry myself and for the first time, I told a christian that he was a hypocrite, a liar, and a fool. My parents insisted that I apologize. I refused and left the room to a lot of yelling and threats.
For the next four years, I heard about this at least once a week. So the night I graduated high school, I left my parent’s home and didn’t see them again for well over a year. By then, I had completed a couple of years of college, which fortunately, I was able to pay for myself. I was entering the army and wanted to try to make peace with them, but had to listen to the same old recriminations and arguments again.
The next time I saw them was two years later when I was getting married. After several years of an on-again, off-again relationship they finally agreed to just not discuss it any more. I’d like to say that worked, but slowly subtle hints became outright condemnation. Then I took a job transfer from Ohio to Arizona, so family meetings were rare enough to become occasions for something other than contention.
What did I learn? Even your family can turn against you if you refuse to share in their illusions.
September 1st, 2010 @ 10:04 pm
Thank you very much, from an atheist dad. It’s hard to deal with raising a child in a world full of so much willful ignorance. Still, I stay strong and keep open and honest about my knowledge and skeptical rationality.
And on that note…
Dunt dun duuh DAAAAHHHH!
!!!!!!!!!AN ATHEIST SHIRT STORE!!!!!!!!!
Aristotle’s Muse
This is my favorite atheist store. Maybe wearing an atheist T-shirt won’t change the world, but enough of them just might.