I have found friends outside the church, who have blessed me very much too along with those inside.

I was once in the ministry and fell away, doing all the things and more that I did before conversion. I still believe but it is a different ball game for me now. I hit the conversion ground running full pelt, went for all the experiences and so on, but life and me revealed another truth. I cannot avoid being me, good and bad and I there is much in this universe I cannot do anything about-it just happens, I have no control or right to control it.

I have much to learn, my religious ego does a great job of avioding the issues,ie, that I am not perfect, cannot be- I can make good and bad decisions- so does every one else. I have to learn to live with this, and not think to hard. To admit honestly that I have a long way to go is not easy. This means I have to accept others imput in my life who know more and have something to say to me in my life, rather than thinking I have the all the answers to give to the world- which contains many folk who have come nowhere near to some of the negative stuff I have done with my life. just because someone is not a Christian does not mean they dont have some kind of wisdom to pass on to me at times and these folk have been very nuturing and generous in my journey.In the past it has just been like me to react badly and arrogantly to them- I am a Christian realist, none of us have the right to turn people away blinded by our own self righteousness- “Let him who is with out sin cast the first stone” is a very telling text for me.

Its a great pity that there is not some kind of non-leagalistic, unconditional loving and supportive ministery our there for people who start to have the honest questions about Faith, like when real life is suffocated- family friends, natural talents, achievements that are I believe are what we are given to serve our fellow souls.

As the above writer indicated, there was no time for what things should have mattered, what message was actually being played there? little wonder he was cattapulted away from the ministry.

What I have learned is this, I am human and can become very obssesive and become my own worst enemy filling my life with every activity trying to justisfy my existence and feel better about myself- a dodgy complex to bring into a legalistic framework. Tre peace and self worth comes another way not may way!

There is too much nothing buttery around, if you have doubts, fears , just critisisms illness and much else should it always be seen as something negative or demonic? Sometimes the stress of living with these kind of assumptions is worse than the problem itself.Is it just possible that the same things happen to everyone for basicly the same reasons? and just maybe its the way that they are dealt with that matters,not always why it happens in the first place? A good man once said to me, “Its not the problem that is the issue, but rather the way you choose to percieve it”

You can still have a belief in a higher being while staying an agnostic. It’s called agnostic theism. What is agnostic theism? You believe in a higher being, something to that effect, but you have to be humble enough to accept that you have no idea or knowledge of what that being is or could be.

The only thing I can’t say is that I’m now an atheist or agnostic. I’m still Christian. I never had any issues with Christ, just with God’s seriously screwed up KIDS.

My beliefs have evolved in a different way. I see the Church as having become so hate-filled, intolerant, and hypocritical that it’s just repulsive.

Most that claim “Christianity” wouldn’t know the teachings of Christ if they bit them in the face. They’re so swayed by all the doctrines of man that have been “interpreted” into scripture, that they have no room left for love. They’re too busy judging everyone and trying to take specks out of other peoples’ eyes when their own eyes are full of logs.

I can say that I share a lot of opinions and viewpoints of both atheists and agnostics regarding many things, and I’m certainly not your atypical born again believer. I suppose I don’t really fit any of the belief system labels completely. Oh well. I hate labels anyway!

my definition and understanding of calling myself an agnostic is found in this statement “Agnostics are often seen as a middle ground between theism and atheism” … hope that helps define where I am at for your understanding … I basically no longer know and often find myself saying I don’t know when it comes to theological stances I once espoused.

But I still find this disturbing…

“Instead we enjoyed spending time with those who had nothing to do with church, such as Lou, the bassist and head of the satanic church in Laramie, Wyoming.”

You enjoyed spending time with someone who had nothing to do with church that was someone who had something to do with (a satanic) church?

If I were a believer, I would guess you are being led astray.

As an agnostic I believe the existence of a supreme being is a possibility, however, having something to do with the enemy of a supreme being would never be an option.

Do I sounds like a bigot?

I don’t think so.

There are certain attributes that come with that territory just as I could not have anything to do with a Nazi.

Whatever made you leave your church, there must have been some good people there that you abandoned.

Good luck to you, I won’t be back.

I call myself in blog world Ibn Verga a 15th Century wandering Jew, rationalist, sceptic (15th century type atheist) who wrote the book asking similar questions to yours.

Question I have, why are you calling yourself “agnostic” ? Do you believe in Pascal wager?

I truly hope peace comes your way. I understand living for yourself and family. I have had a wonderful wife and 3 grown kids who are very close to each other. We all grew together during this process. I am lucky in that regard.

My dad, William Lobdell, wrote a book called Losing My Religion and it comes out this Tuesday. It’s his story of raising a family Christian and then losing his faith because of reporting for the LA Times about Religion. I think all of you readers would like it. He has a blog over at

I would love to read your blog!

Almost scary…and at the same time comforting to know I am not alone in this journey. Thanks for posting this.”

… fw … u r not alone my friend
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Anyway, Shok (or is it Schoch?),”

… Steelman… it’s both … Last name is Schoch but I often write as Shok the German and have a blog called Shok the Agnostic

Yes, I would say there are just a few details missing there. This sounds like a Seinfeld episode.

“What happened? Well, I was a pastor at the local church, then yada, yada, yada, I was hanging out with satanists.”

Anyway, Shok (or is it Schoch?), although I spent a relatively short time in a leadership role at the local Pentecostal church, I can identify with your experience. I also recall a number of folks there who seemed to be headed for ministry burnout.

I know some kept their faith and moved on to a less demanding lifestyle. But, since I’ve lost contact with most of that crowd, I may never know whether or not some of them ended up agnostic/atheists like myself. Either way, I wish them well.

Almost scary…and at the same time comforting to know I am not alone in this journey. Thanks for posting this.

… yes that is a true ovservation

“It would be interesting to know if the transition included an awareness and acceptance of (belief in) scientific explanations of the unfolding of the Universe and the immutability of natural laws as developed by processes of rational inquiry.”

… and yes again this is also true about me